Nick. If there is a vapor barrier under the concrete slab in my house, and the laminate installers put a vapor barrier on top of the slab, before installing the laminate, will this not trap moisture in the concrete? Thanks for the questions. The first thing you need to do is identify if you have a moisture issue and quantify how bad it is. Once you know this, then you can try to investigate solutions. I have a problem with my walk-in-beer cooler located in a convenience store in W. TN. would that protect the wood beams from mold and mildew? Sorry you are having these issues. My installer was half way through the job laying the tile when I realized some of the tiles were hollow to the tapi pulled up some of these tiles to see that the thinset was not adhering to the slab (brittle actually) and in other areas it seemed to adhere fineunder one area of tile we noticed that the thinset adhered but the was some beading water in some of the thinset groves. Help me!???? This may help you understand better. Although this is not specific to them, they have a recommended installation process for hardwood flooring that utilizes installing plywood on the concrete, prior to the finished product. Given that the interior will be so open to the elements, is there any benefit to installing a vapor barrier under the concrete slab? We put down the recommended barrier with the plastic backing before laying the floor. The contractor says that we must have a cracked slab thats letting in moisture and that his installation technique was fine. sir..i need advice does precast earthing pit need vapor barrierssince this considered as non sturctutral concrete dimension is 30cm x30 cm by 20 cm our engineer require as to wrap the the precast before backfill is it necessary..?? I plan to do a calcium chloride test to determine the moisture of the concrete. Thanks for the question. We are wanting to replace the flooring. I would always recommend a vapor retarder directly beneath the slab if you are going to install a low permeable finish on the surface. Typically, the poly directly under the slab is to make a separation between the concrete and the soil to keep moisture from infiltrating the concrete after a flooring finish is installed. Under some building codes the lower strength mix requires the use of a vapour barrier where as the higher strength mix does not. My concern is two-fold: 1) Will using this air tight method cause moisture to get trapped under the plastic sheet with no way to escape? As far as the results from the 6mil poly on the surface of the concrete, there is a reason this is not a flooring industry-recognized concrete moisture testing standard. Vapor retarders have been used since the 1950s. What kind of barrier would be best? Thanks for the question. That reason is that it isnt always indicating the moisture in the slab and if it does, you dont know how much moisture there is in relation to a potential flooring failure. slab grade foundation moisture control basement air concrete construction vapor insulation crawl floating drainage water building walls block leakage barrier This could be something as simple as varying temperatures and condensation forming on the tile. We installed laminate flooring about 6 years ago and now have a terrible odor. I want to pull up the carpet and padding in the main areas of my home. Please advise. Im concerned that a vapor barrier would trap moisture underneath it. Especially with this being converted to residential living and presumably will have a finished floor on top of the slab, I would install the vapor retarder directly under the concrete and I would use something 10mil or greater. After that I think I would be inclined to contact a flooring inspector at NICFI.org to get their unbiased opinion. Thanks for the question. Say 12 X 12 tile or a breathable carpet. Joe. Thanks for the comment/question. It appeared the mold had been accumulating far before the water damage took place (I had a minor flood the year before but THOUGHT i remedied the drying and cleaning of the carpet myself). I live in East TN and have a pole barn that I will be pouring concrete into soon and building into a residential space. Good luck. Would pouring a new slab over the existing one be something to consider? We could find no reason (roof leak, plumbing leak, wall leak, etc.) My question is whether a vapor barrier should be installed under this footing, I assume so, but do we need to bring the barrier up the sides of the hole also? Thanks for the question. This is why a vapor barrier under concrete is essential. It will have a laminate floor when done. If you just going to leave it as concrete, cosmetically, for now and the future, most probably wouldnt utilize a vapor retarder. If no, then you need to utilize a mitigation product that will warrant up to 100% RH and will do so even if an intact retarder isnt present. Thanks for the comments. And dampness is only part of the problem, water vapor moving through a concrete floor can: But it doesn't have to be that way. Just a quick one my builder have put a vapour barrier at the bottom of the insulation on a sand base. Granted i did let the carpet sit for about a week before pulling it up entirely. I hope this helps. On the other hand, the sheet also helps to ensure there is a break between the blotter layer and the concrete to keep groundwater from entering the slab later in its life. Here are some things I can add for you to think about though: 1. The foundation walls were constructed in 1990, there does not appear to be any moisture leakage through any of the sections of concrete. not even 2 weeks later the entire floor started to buckle. Some think vapor barriers can cause slabs to curl and that simply pouring concrete directly onto a granular base (gravel, crushed rock, etc.) From what I hear, epoxy paint does tend to be a bit more durable in situations like this. And is a vapor barrier under the new to-be-poured concrete needed? Vapor barriers also block gases, such as methane or radon. The paint store said to put on this armor 2 part epoxy paint and it should resist the moisture. then correcting in may be difficult. I have heard of people doing this, but I would always check local building codes to confirm acceptability. Any suggestions? I hope this helps. Thanks for the question. When he started working I asked him if he measured the moisture in the concrete and he said no he hasnt but it doesnt feel moist. I think there is now trapped rainwater in between my poly and styrofoam. Lastly, here is a link to a tile size/trowel size guideline table: http://www.elitebuilding.com/tile/ref/trowelsize.htm. My question is how would you form up against these existing stud walls when pouring/screeding the new concrete floor? Would a vapor barrier padding prevent this or would it just keep the mold on one side of the barrier? He did and the moisture level was at 100%. We cant afford to keep trying different things. I believe were now getting condensation between the plastic and the cement. the floor is not flat or smooth and it has channels in it. The contractor I hired to form and pour the slab for my free standing garage has poked holes in plastic I had him put down as a vapor barrier. Good Luck. Thanks for the comment. Thanks for writing. Theres almost always water underneath a building site. We just built a condition party barn in Middle TN. Why You Should Use Relative Humidity (RH) Testing, Flooring, Millwork, Furniture & Cabinet Manufacturers, How to Choose a Moisture Measurement System for Your Sawmill Buying Guide, Concrete Vapor Barriers: Everything You Need to Know, Free Download 7 Things You May Not Know about Concrete Slabs. How would you recommend mediation to resolve issue. Thank you for your time. I need a product that will allow me to put down tile, wood or laminate products. Thanks for the question. Good luck. Just a sump-pump tied to a single floor drain. Hi, Im building a wood framed shed 12 x 12, or 10 x 12 with a concrete floor. Good Luck. Unfortunately, a 5 means nothing in most of the finish world. !please help? Thanks for the question. Thanks for the questions. A 10-mil vapor barrier may be sufficient for residential construction in terms of puncture resistance, although the 10-mil barriers can't completely isolate the slab from ground moisture. ACI 302.1, which is an American Concrete Institute standard for slab construction, was modified in the early 2000s to reflect the change in the placement of the vapor barrier directly below the concrete if a low permeable membrane (flooring) was to be installed. However, the current practice recommended by the American Concrete Institute is to apply a heavy grade, non-penetrable vapor barrier (or retarder) with the lowest possible permeance for the application over a layer of granular fill (crushed rock, gravel, etc.). I will send you an email shortly with some additional information and attachments. I live in Thailand, where the temperature is never below 70 degrees F. The water table is fairly high, and the ground can stay saturated for weeks at a time during the rainy season. Would you also put on expansion joint in? What should my next move be, dont know who to reach out to. Just using concrete as the floor. Any reccomended products that I can use to eliminate the need for an extra underlayment? i going to put a new slab over it. Guide to Concrete Floor and Slab Construction, https://www.stegoindustries.com/stego-wrap-vapor-barriers?hsCtaTracking=d654940e-2168-473c-934d-ed294b689fe3%7C23dd2231-f515-494b-8e7f-b042972bd744, https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/new-slab-on-top-of-old_o, https://www.tcnatile.com/faqs/71-thick-setthick-bed.html, http://www.elitebuilding.com/tile/ref/trowelsize.htm, Why Your Carpet Smells and What You Can Do About It, Concrete RH Testing: Tips to Reduce Your Risk of Courtroom Drama. Having a vapor barrier on the ground of your crawl space is a recommended practice. I plan to drill into existing slab and place #5 rebar 24 on center, however I am confused when it comes to pouring up to the stud walls. I have a contractor that says half of my garage reads a 5 on moisture gauge and wants to lay down a ristoleum vapor barrier for $1850. If I wanted to apply the shiplap directly to the slab would I need to install a paint on or plastic vapor barrier, or must I use furring strips? Keep in mind, concrete never really dries completely and concrete, for the most part, loves water. Bottom line: If you want to make sure your slab on ground gets dry and stays dry, use a vapor barrier. If you have concerns I would have an environmental specialist come out and evaluate the air quality in your living environment. I did the vapor test with plastic on a dry floor and it the result was very damp. Steve. If you are going to do some type of finish, most would recommend a vapor retarder. Thanks for the question. That being said, yes moisture vapor can condense under the 6 mil, but the odds are it will be a constant flux of condense and reabsorption back into the concrete. I cant say whether vinyl planking would be better, but I would at least investigate it. Just ensure the product you choose warrants against hydrostatic pressure. When did it become standard practice in CA to use a water/vapor barrier under a slab? Thanks for the question. Have one of them evaluate and give you some input. Both of these are flooring industry-accepted methods for concrete moisture testing. What are the solutions? We have had carpet with a mold resistant pad for the past 6 years. I remember when the floor was installed there was a foam underlayment but I to not remember it having any plastics on the bottom side. Learn how your comment data is processed. This being said, I have a hard time believing that the concrete was dry enough for flooring installation. Recently, though, research has shown that the old traditional layer of 6-mil Visqueen (polyethylene plastic) under the slab is seldom effective for two main reasons: True vapor barriers allow little water vapor to penetrate. Our ins. Generally, youll want to use a low-permeance vapor barrier when you need to protect a slab thats going to be covered by moisture-sensitive materials like adhesives and floor coverings. Im avoiding a simple plastic ones for that reason and looking into underlayments that are designed for LVP (such as FloorMuffler LVT). We have had several hardwood floor contractors out to bid putting in new floors. Im just concerned that if something is stored in there that it could cause problems if the barrier is punctured. I would say that it really depends on the amount of moisture in the concrete as to which one would be best to utilize. Impermeable vapor barriers are those with a rating of 0.1 perm or less while class II vapor retarders are those with a rating greater than 0.1 perm and less than 1.0 perm. Theres only one-way moisture leaves concrete, though, and thats via its surface. Prepping for polyurea coating. We purchased our home 4 years ago. tile, carpet, paint? Would it be advisable to put a vapor barrier on the floor to reduce any smells? The floor level is techinically 15 above grade the way our yard slopes. I, personally, have never heard of Drylok, but I can tell you that there are numerous products on the market that can help with issues like you have described. Moisture enters concrete in a variety of ways, including via the ground, from humidity in the air, and through leaky plumbing that passes through a slab. But I worry that sealing my floor will cause more problems with trapped moisture underneath? You might need an even thicker barrier though if youre covering material with sharp angles. My home is in southern Michigan. You could be having issues with the moisture in the concrete or some type of dew point/condensation issues. Now i started reading that this was important to do. You should research them and look at warranties. I hope this helps. How Many Sensors Do I Need to Test for My Flooring Job? Were finally ready to deal with it though. 3. I had heard of vapor barrier problems and wondered if this could be the reason behind these problems. We have a very long run of approximately 34 ft. Several areas including the center of the 34 ft run have become separated and have quite a lot of play in them. Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the U.S., according to the American Lung Association. I just bought a raised ranch modular home that sits on a poured concrete foundation on 3.25 walls. Thanks for the comment. They also say they usually use 6milwhich is too thin based on the standard 10mil or more, correct? Hello Jason We are creating a footing for a large piece of equipment that we are installing within our facility. I have seen endless builders pour slabs for houses with no vapor barrier. However, strictly speaking, they arent the same thing. Do I need to seal the concrete before I install? Or would a poly modified medium bed thinset be sufficient? Home The Rapid RH Concrete Moisture Test Concrete Information & Knowledge Base Subfloor Moisture Concrete Vapor Barriers: Everything You Need to Know. I was wondering if it would be a reasonable plan to spread a layer of fibered roof coating over the existing concrete to make a seamless vapor barrier before pouring the 4 slab over it? ASTM E-1745 specifies minimum values for tensile strength and puncture resistance that increase from Class C to Class A. My only concern with laying a vapor retarder of that type, on the slab, would be the potential buildup of moisture between the slab and the retarder. What do you suggest? my biggest question is CAN I SUCCESSFULLY INSTALL CARPET IN MY BASEMENT WITHOUT THE OCCURRENCE OF MOISTURE AND/OR MOLD? Livingroom and Hallway have hardwood floors. Im curious we purchased an older cabin thats on a cement slab when we opened the doors after the winter we found that the floor sweats ALOT! The acceptable degree of vapor barrier permeability depends on the application. Due to expenses of resident turnover, they decided to remove carpet/pad/tack and replace with sheet vinyl everywhere excluding Bedrooms, on the first floor for each of the properties. Thank you for the question. Obviously, fixing the slab construction the way it is now, would be difficult. I asked him to get his moisture reader and just measure it. The only real way to know for sure is to have core samples taken of the slab by a geotechnical type of firm. Im building my own house and Im at the stage that my main floor has already been polyed, styrofoam installed, rebar done and finishing the loop for my radiant heating. Thank you. Im planning to build a shed, approx. claim is taking care of everything related to reconstruction phase, I think. If it is environmental and there isnt something causing it i.e dryer vent not venting correctly to the outside, etc.) Our garage floor gets damp and slippery when its humid out which is often in WI. It seems to be more gravel and sand. We do not know if a moisture barrier was utilized or not. Read more about moisture coming up through concrete, including how to test for moisture vapor transmission. Would drylock on the floor first prevent the moisture capillary affect or whatever it is that is happening? If Pergo is the finished product, I would start by calling their technical hotline (after quantifying the moisture levels) and asking them for recommendations or guidance. Im confused. Tried epoxy paint to seal rec.room blistered in many areas. Thanks for the question. Do you have any suggestions on ways to reinforce the vapor barrier to make sure that its not punctured and OK for me to use as a storage space? Jason has 20+ years experience in sales and sales management in a spectrum of industries and has successfully launched a variety of products to the market, including the original Rapid RH concrete moisture tests. 4) than the interior floor to the rest of the house. Youll hear people using the terms vapor barrier and vapor retarder interchangeably. All of the problems associated with moisture vapor movement in a concrete slab will go away in time as the slab dries, as long as there is no source of additional water into the slab. I dont claim to be a radiant heat slab construction expert, but I would think you would want things as dry as possible prior to the pour. Note: A vapor barrier is not the same as an underlayment. Thanks! Should I put a vapor barrier down before pouring??? I have a concrete slab on grade with a plastic vapor barrier below. I want to put carpet back in my basement as I work on my music projects down there. Im inclined to trust him, but what do you think? hi jason i have a workshop in an old barn with a cement floor pre 1030 vintage. I do not want to replace this floor again anytime soon! Good luck. I did use treated sub-flooring this time and covered it with a vinyl plank instead of hardwood. We found that under the clay tile, It wasnt concrete slab. The home (19yrs old) has a concrete slab on grade with a visqueen vapor barrier under the slab. It is obviously cheaper to do this right the next time than to replace the floor every 2-3 years. The best way to accomplish that is with a vapor barrier under the slab. obviously we will lay plastic for the entire floor but thought would be double protection under the footing trenches and posts to protect from moisture. We decided to get LVP in the kitchen. I paid the concrete company my buddy owns it and dont want him to get screwed. That being said, I doubt some moisture (you didnt say how much) would be a huge problem as long as you gave the flooring assembly ample time for the moisture to escape and dry, prior to installing a finished floor. Good luck. How would you suggest going about the vapor barrier? First and foremost, follow the manufacturers recommendations for a proper, warrantable installationincluding installing the 6 mil. Regarding the roof coating, it would just depend on the actual perm rating of the coating as to whether it would be an effective vapor retarder. Of course, ACI isnt necessarily the end all, be all in the construction specification world. Based on the information, I really cant answer the question. Ive also mounted a remote hygrometer on joist in crawl space near the slab. What barrier type is best? Should I put a 2nd vapor barrier above the concrete floor before putting down floating laminate floor? I live in Atlanta, Georgia, and I have a house which is 33 years old with a unfinished daylight basement. My son has severe lung disease and cannot have any mold or mildew. Now that being said, people re-purpose all the time. Now we are considering putting some type of barrier between the two, and are toggling between the mvb moisture mitigation product and a moisture barrier underlayment beneath the vinyl. Make sure the one you chose covers slabs that DONT have a vapor retarder below. What could be causing this? Vapor barriers are less permeable than vapor retarders. Im going to start building, and vapor barrier doesnt come in sheets as wide as the house, so Im getting the idea that the sections/layers should be sealed together with some sort of exterior silicone stuff? I live in the St. Louis area, and its humid in the summer and can feel quite dry in the winter. The crawlspace is probably only 1.5, so its kind of tough to manuever around, but it is possible. Great information. Thank you! Good Blessed afternoon, I have a 50x40 heated garage, which is also heated, insulated and drywalled (walls & ceiling), its 92 outside On top of the 6 concrete floor w/ wire mesh, I also installed 12x12 porcelain tiles. Thanks for the comment. I have opened the garage doors to dry it out and it gets even worse. Is there something I need to be aware of and watching for in having a concrete floor as my flooring? Also is 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 trowel best for this size of tile? They are a network of flooring inspectors. Dont know which way to go! Thanks for the question. If I had to guess, I would say this has something to do with dewpoint and the surface temperature of the concrete. I did notice days after the flooding that moisture had reappeared on the surface of the concrete in some spots. Rebar framework and equipment mounting studs will be built into the hole and then the hole filled with cement. I would consult a local geotechnical company for additional information regarding performing the service. So, my question Is it okay to just pour concrete into the larger holes without support? Thanks for the comment. One option may be to have a coating installed that has some type of slip resistant surface. I hope this helps. the foundation blocks around the floor drain (the sump almost in the corner of the basement) have holes drilled in them where they meet the floor to drain any block absorbed water. In Prescott, AZ I have noticed many slab homes being build and to date I have not witnessed one with a thermal or vapor barrier. I am putting down the plastic barrier on top of the sub-floor, and then the new Pergo laminate on top of that. Being that this is a very specific, unique question, I am enrolling help from one of my industry counterparts from Stego. This water can move up through the soil and come into contact with the bottom of a concrete floor via capillary action. I dont believe its capillary action from the water table because when I pull back an area of the plastic, that area dries out in a day or so. Obviously, these are just a couple of suggestion. If the thickened slabs are poured prior to the top 4 slab, can the vapor barrier be placed over the thickened areas in lieu of going under the thickened footings? Would that be sufficient or do I still need to be concerned and look into membranes (Platon, Superseal) that allow airflow? So we have to balance the overall system makeup to ensure all parts perform well together. We had a slab raised a few months ago, with a vapor barrier underneath the new portion. Usually, if you arent looking at putting a finish on the concrete, you have no issues with the moisture in the concrete. hello, how are you hope you will be fine. I dont know if theres a vapor barrier underneath the floor. (ls that DryLok?) Ive also had the roof and windows inspected. He did not put vapour barrier under cement! Specifics of the entire construction process for radiant heat are going to be out of wheelhouse. Im thinking maybe I need to insulate the cooler floor(top of slab) to possibly help so it would keep the cold from permeating down through the slab (basically raising due point), or some how or another insulate the exterior of slab that is exposed to the crawlspace to keep that moisture from wanting to stick to the cool wall of slab. I have a living room that used to be a garage. If yes, does the slab have an intact vapor retarder? (weve had copious amounts of rain over the last two weeks) They promise that once we get grass down on the ground and the ground is graded we should have no issues with moisture. I would want to test in the concrete section (in situ relative humidity testing), not just the surface of the concrete. As long as there is moisture present in the concrete it will continue to get stronger and improve at an ever decreasing rate. Finally, is bringing it up IN FRONT of the baseboard and behind the quarter round a smarter alternative? They arent the only game out there, but it is a place to start. In May I noticed small droplets of water seeping out of the grout lines in several areas, by August 2016 there was grout discoloration in several areas as well as water seepage. Is this new construction? Here is also a link for the construction of a slab on slab https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/new-slab-on-top-of-old_o Good luck. I would like to install 1224 tile on it but am wondering if I need to apply a vapor barrier or sealer of sorts prior to install? thanks. If you are trying to minimize the amount of moisture that may come in contact with a flooring finish, there are topically applied products that have the same classification (perm rating) as an under slab retarder. Thanks for the question. We are in Florida and would like to know the best method for installing 6 mil poly vapor barrier over our concrete slab, prior to putting down laminate flooring. We currently have hardwood flooring (12mm) installed on our slab foundation. I plan to install Luxury Vinyl planks with cork backing everywhere, but do not want to install a crinkly underlayment/moisture barrier. Thanks for the comment/question. While I cannot soak up any excess moisture with a towel, a Damp-Rid container fills up in about 3-4 months time, so there is definitely excess moisture in this one room. Different areas have different building requirements. As long as the concrete is relatively dry, there should be no problem, right? You may also want to investigate products like these: https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Membranes/Uncoupling-%28DITRA%29/Schluter%C2%AE-DITRA-%26-DITRA-XL/p/DITRA, http://www.ardexamericas.com/en-us/Products/tilestone/Pages/ARDEX-UI-720.aspx. I have even allowed the new laminate flooring to acclimate to my house for over a month. This is great for finishing, but not good for the overall health of the finish that will be installed on the surface of the concrete. Thanks for the question. Obviously, I am not endorsing any of these, but they are products that come up in daily discussions.

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