Sand the paneling with 100-grit sandpaper until the joint compound is smooth and flush with the paneling. Examine the delaminated wood paneling carefully to identify the outer edges of the delamination. Gene Wengert, aka The Wood Doctor, troubleshoots wood related problems, and explores lumber and veneer qualities and performance, species by species, in Wood Explorer, inside FDMC's Knowledge Center. money/profit. It would beappropriate for them to post signs that read "Shop Here At Your Own Risk". The WoodenBoat Forum is sponsored by WoodenBoat Publications, publisher of WoodenBoat magazine. Beside this, How do you fix delaminated wood paneling? In fact I would bet that it isnt. My source has been doing it since the mid 60's I believe and appear not to leave a stone un-turned. The first cut had delaminated over half the length and the second cut was almost as bad. So I had run out of the plywood that I got from my lumber supplier, so I got sheet from the Home Depot. Sand just enough to roughen the surface and remove any loose wood fibers and existing adhesive. Delamination in plywood occurs when the glue holding the two pieces of veneer fails. supposed to be. Thanks Scan the QR code on the right to jump to the URL this document was printed from. Not sure - might be a Vid question, 6y And one just never stops learning on this forum! Install noncorrosive wood screws at each corner of the repair. These sprays on and paint on waterproofing is usually liquid latex element. Although it sounded like their saw blades were dull, the tear-out on the back side of the board was horrible, up to 1/2 inch in some places. I loaded the pieces back into the truck and took them back. in history from New York University. I'm on the end of this thread. Buy some Bondo-type auto body filler or wood filler and spread a thin coat on the plywood edges, then sand it smooth. Be careful as you cut, so as to not damage the veneer layer beneath. As Steve says, they know their customers, so they really market the cheap stuff and put it in prime spots at the end of the aisle in these stores. Sand down any epoxy resin residue with coarse sandpaper. Cracks that go all the way through the plywood are virtually impossible, due to the way plywood is made. Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member! Moisture enters into the wood through an unfinished side or through pinholes in the finish and dampens the surface veneer, causing it to expand. The only reason Lowes exists is to drive HD out of business. They believe that they can just pass on a product to consumers based on price and us consumers not noticing the quality. Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Sorry to jump in, your post reminded me of a sign a friend had in his shop. You can get a good price, good quality or a good schedule. Some people are satisfied with the finish that they are able to achieve by simply filling the indentation with epoxy and sanding it. The majority of the China ply I have seen is Poplar the skins look decent and there are like 13 or more plies also Poplar .Now if you had an application to cover the walls of train cars without needing to cut the sheets they may be the ticket . I do believe that Wood delamination is caused by a breakdown of the cellular structure of the wood. If the panel still pulls up, take the panel off the wall and reglue it. I am afraid that the glue will seep out and the clamps will be stuck to the artwork, is there any way to prevent that? Place clamps across the delaminated layers. Once cured, the epoxy and fiberglass cloth should be sanded, feathering it out to blend with the adjacent surface. The layer must not be thick enough to spill over onto the adjacent tape. Go to your local lumberyard and the price may not be as good, their store hours are not as convenient, but almost everytime, their quality will blow the big-boxes away. We were capable of all three, just not at the same time. - lol. How to repair small delaminated plywood spot on cabinet? If this is your first visit, be sure to It is like I would always explain to potential clients when I was a contractor. In-depth articles, up-close photography, and detailed illustrations. 15,228 We all want the good stuff but more times then not especially the DIYers can realize a huge pile of savings so they opt for the cheaper product , that's what Steve is referring to giving good prices to the customers . I don't know whether these stores are an anomaly, but my experience is that if you look hard, there's often a little bit of the good stuff back in there, too. Get instant access to over 100 digital plans available only to UNLIMITED members. When I got to the return counter, the young lady said that I couldn't return the cut sheet because I had cut it. get an aspirin.Bill-http://www.franklinwoodwright.com. Fungi are microscopic spores that travel in the air. Is there a method to glue it back together and paint it so the damage will not go further and be noticeable anymore? Keep them in place for the duration of the cure time recommended for the epoxy resin. Secure repairs smaller than 6 square inches with noncorrosive galvanized staples. Perhaps that is all that is expected of them. Unfortunately, since I'm a hobbyist, I don't get there that often, Aura is mainly a cabinet shop supplier which I guess is why they carry the Europly.Thanks! The Lowes is in a iffy neighborhood so you have to remember to pack a gun when you shop there. I hate to give you a smart-assed answere here, but the first task is finding someone to talk to, then finding someone at HD who knows what the hell delamination is, and thirdly, finding someone who cares. Carefully lift the veneers loose edge and scrape off the residue of the dry glue from the base wood surface and the back of the veneer. We have created these special content collections organized to give you a deep dive into a range of topics that matter. How do you make Trader Joes Organic broccoli florets? If you have delamination going back into the ply for three inches, I doubt that it is marine grade plywood. Share your thoughts with us in the comments below. nozzle and get at best one season out of it before HD gets very little of my $$ for the same reasons (and more!) I had that same problem with some HD maple plywood a couple of years ago and haven't bought any of their plywood since then. And like lemmings, we'll go back // Leaf Group, Resin Lab: Mixing Instructions for Epoxy Systems. Press it down to ensure contact. Delamination occurs when the adhesive of a plywood veneer fails and the top layer separates from the rest of the plywood. I didn't see a single void while I was cutting it up.Norman. Please sign in to reply to this topic. It barely held up to assembly process without stripping and the handle didn't even survive shipping. Wanna join the discussion? That is how HD and Lowes I will do my best to buy Thanks, it is not deep, less of 1/16" of the top layer, it is easily bent forward and back with a single finger. Rather, we need to be ready to repair plywood that has been damaged, especially when it has been damaged in a critical area. Let me expand on that, the prices are a LIE. ahead in the end. Then sand, then paint. Well, why do you show the price at the store online AT ALL then? I think I really understand the situation now, Enter and You will Assimilated! I would wick a large bottle of super glue (the good Industrial type)into the areas after they had been positioned horizontally. But even the best places can stick you with Chinese junk plywood: the only time I ever purchased any was from my favorite supplier! Seems ya can't get anything that doesn't say Made in China these days. Sweep away all of the sanding dust so that the work area is clean and free of loose debris. Every single piece (even the clamping mechanism) is cheap cheap plastic. No need to register unless you would like to participate, although some images will only show if you are registered/logged-in. before you can post: click the red register link or the register tab, above, right. As long as the sander is sitting flat on the surface, this should not be a problem. Delamination in plywood occurs when the glue holding the two pieces of veneer fails. Start your 14-day FREE trial - and get building! Any moisture trapped under paneling can increase the risk of warped paneling or hidden mold growth. If you've followed the HD stock recently, and followed all the issues surrounding the departure of the CEO who was to collect millions in some sort of buyout scam, critics point out quickly that customer service went in the dumper under his tutilage and the stockholders told him to take a hike. Without a vent to release excess moisture, the air becomes trapped. Anyway, has anyone else had horrible plywood from the Depot? It will suck. supplying quality goods and service. The clerk said well, it's Black , here is the handle and it comes with a nice case . Epoxy is more flexible, so it will resist delamination caused by flexion better. However, keep it off of the surface of the plywood sheet by taping the surface with masking tape. Dents, surface cracks and the indentations left by bubbles can be filled with high-solids epoxy or epoxy putty. Bubbles form in plywood when there is a localized failure of the adhesive used to attach the layers of veneer together. they convincingly advertise "low costs" and have If the extra nails hold it flat, countersink them and fill the surface with a premixed wood putty. Once that works, you will need to sand down any unsmooth parts of the cab, and then a little bondo fill if necessary (try to not use any but you'll most likely need some). Try really hard to get that to work - if the clamps fail while drying, you will have to fill with bondo and sand.. a LOT. I was particularly pizzed because cutting a sheet of plywood made it "mine", even though on other occasions I had seen people returning pieces of trim and molding that were obviously cutoffs that were left over. If the moisture damage extends to the fibers beneath the plywood's veneer, though, you can't save the plywood. blame for blind acceptance of mediocrity that the big Having said that I have seen plywood purchasedfrom wholesalers and dealersdelaminate. A pane of good glass can be used if you are careful. Recently bought 3/4 inch red oak ply from depot and had them cut it up for me. Yeah, I was surprised too. I think it would be great if HD and Lowe's took a gander at the comments about them posted here on Knots -- maybe they'd rethink their supply chain and product line. box stores have cleverly convinced us to think.Whew - a long way to go to get that said. What are normal operating pressures for 410A? A small hard rubber roller will assist in laying peelers down.Saran Wrap or a good poly film can be used between clamped pieces to prevent sticking. It doesn't have a chance even in the mildest of shop settings. With the rejects we are getting, any price savings is gone. given week. large profits. The art comes in building up the missing paint areas to be level and then matching the paint. They just don't seem to turn up there like I had hoped. Recently I went into Lowe's and asked where they had their MDF. Is it OK to copy projects from the magazine? Now here's another question, why don't American manufacturers make Baltic or Finnish type plywood (in American sizes of course)? I have had success with 2-part fairing compounds used with wooden boats (Hamilton Marine or Jamestown Suppliers.) I applaud people & corporations that make on what best deal they can score from supplier "X" for any it breaks or the seals crack & leak before Once you do all that, well, sad to say your day has ended in extreme frustration and you leave the store vowing never to return. Your killing me. Prime Directives from the Plywood Borg. I do When not busy learning about homes and appliances she's sharing that knowledge. It increased my TV shirt budget by $25 dollars for the year. Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Repair delaminated plywood with epoxy resin. It's been around for many years you just have to ask for it by name . We have learned from a few past threads that some import ply may contain up to 100 times the safe levels of formaldehyde ( Jeff Heath got sick ) the bottom line is every time a ship full of this junk comes to dock someone makes perhaps a million dollars , they don't want to stop buying and selling it , higher profit margins and lower cost to customers , but at what cost to our health ? UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month. Her work has appered in the "Houston Press" and several other publications. In the long run you'll be happier and our society will be better off! You have to apply this when the surface is wet. "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look. High Humidity Wood naturally absorbs the moisture in the air and expands, which causes warping or buckling. How many calories in a hot caramel latte from Dunkin Donuts? Our biweekly podcast allows editors, authors, and special guests to answer your woodworking questions and connect with the online woodworking community. All delamination occurs because something is not being done correctly at the plywood manufacturing mill. to the same store, buy the same product again with Rabbeting a shelf; Strength vs. appearance, Editor's Letter: A new tool with every project. I call it the moment of truth , when Joe consumer goes to the lumber dept there is domestic Maple or Birch plywood for , say $65.00 or China ply for $32..50 per sheet . They're a supermarket and not a specialty store. Plywood with extensive moisture damage must be cut out and replaced with sound plywood. Paint? It would be nice if it was, but thats just not in the cards. & the big box stores have listened. These guys and gals go the extra mile to make certain you are aware before the fact and I appreciate that. Place a wide strip of painter's tape around all sides of the exposed area. You won't be able to spot paint perfectly, so be prepared to either hide the paint seam, or paint teh whole cab. I had 4 sheets of paint-grade maple ply delivered with a couple hundred board-feet of hardwood (free delivery!!!!) 110K In fact, those plywood panels with the APA quality symbol will be guaranteed against delamination. Apply a thin layer of epoxy resin to the exposed plywood with a trowel. "why don't American manufacturers make Baltic or Finnish type plywood", Columbia Forest Products does: http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/products/prodeuro.aspx. The exceptions would be for plywood that is exposed to extreme heat (which melts the glue) or quite a bit of wetting (which may dissolve the glue or may promote decay) after manufacturinga rare event in furniture and cabinets. That's not true. Water damage, which attacks the edges of the plywood first, generally requires replacement of the piece (although reinforcement is possible in some cases). My feeling is that I'm perfectly capable of screwing up a woodworking project all by myself, and don't really need extra help from my supplier. Leave the epoxy to set for five to 10 minutes or the amount of time the label recommends waiting before placing objects on the surface of the epoxy resin. Commenting has been disabled. Good fortune with matching the paint. You can repair sound, dry plywood suffering from delamination using an epoxy resin. I have had a problem with HD plywood delaminating. The EPA is the governing body I believe but have read that there are no indoor air standards to follow however take a look at the FEMA / Katrina trailers / homes that have been locked up because of too high of Formaldehyde levels , hmmm. I guess I have to keep looking at yard sales for an old one. Please note though, that it cuts a bit slower than wood, so if you are not careful, you will take more material off from the plywood around the repair than in the repair itself. Start your 14-day FREE trial - and get building. I don't blame anyone for making Don't scratch the cab, use something under the clamps (a piece of wood, wrapped in foam or cloth if you wish). The parts store told our mechanic that many replaceable parts are now made there. I found some nice HD ply from Pebble Creek, rock solid material. Columbia ply is the main source of domestic my HW supplier uses for domestic. Hemera Technologies/AbleStock.com/Getty Images. desire to THINK "Hmmm.if I buy one good quality Prevent it by: Adding ventilation to areas that are exposed to high heat or excessive moisture. ", By Dave Carnell in forum Building / Repair. My father & grandfather demanded quality & got quality. produces today?! Place bricks, concrete blocks or other items over the repair. With the way the dollar is going, it'd be cheaper than based european or Ruble based Russian import stuff. Allow the joint compound to dry. Instead of a manager, I got someone from the lumber department who rather rudely told me that since I had cut the sheet, I owned it and couldn't return it. A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop! there (screws, nails, glue, etc). Re-glue the loose veneer using contact cement or carpenters glue. It was about a two inch deep de-lamination on both sides of the cut piece across about a 1/3 of a 45 inch length. are secondary to their prime directive. that you folks have stated. We have recently switched to a new source of supply. Can I Replace Just a Section of My Parquet Floor? vote with our dollars - we'll get what we want - or 1 (who here doesn't think the "old" the same end results! But all stacks of ply are clearly marked domestic (U.S. or Canada) and all others are clearly marked Import. This layer of cloth can either be attached with epoxy or with fiberglass resin. My issue, little off topic, is with Home Depot's awful internet policy. This can be attributed to moisture in the wood that allows fungi to grow and feed off the starches and sugars present. Pull the damaged section away from the wall. marketing and selling strategies. A: Are you talking about delamination within the plywood or delamination of the decorative veneer from the plywood core? For the most part, I stick to "real" hardware stores and lumber yards where I actually like to shop. Also,How do you stop plywood delamination? Lift the weights and remove the masking tape after the cure time has elapsed. Wood Workers Supply is very nice to work with and stands behind the material they sell. This is after carefully taping off sides and areas that need no glue. Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Bottom line is that not matter how tempting this or that deal may be --- avoid the big box stores. When using a putty stick, fill the scratch and then wipe away any putty on the surface of the paneling with a clean cloth. If we the consumer If I'm building a run of the mill shed or kids play set in the backyard I most certainly will find what I need their. Gene Unfortunately, it will take a long time and lots of convincing to get me back in there. same hose nozzle 10 times in ten years for $100 - ", This forum post is now archived. Use a dry cloth to soak up excess moisture. 6y Sand the exposed section of plywood and the underside of the removed piece of veneer lightly with coarse-grit sandpaper. Insert the knife back into the crack. one week, but can't find it at their stores the next week.I can't say enough negative things about each of them. Had the same experience with another major chain. Then clamp the hell out of it, with 5,6,7 clamps, however many you need. I knew to expect cheap, but this is a new low for me. Since the bubble is only in the surface veneer, it does not destroy the structural integrity of the plywood or what has been made out of it. I of course told him they had lost a customer for life, and I would never set foot there again ( this is not the first time I have been massively disappointed there)I think its fair to say that this is a prevailing sentiment among consumers, and that Home Depot hasn't simply stopped caring, they actively seem to hate customers.DIsgusted in North CarolinaSpencer. Plus tips, advice, and special offers from Fine Woodworking. Providing better information on softwood and hardwood. The delaminated veneer of the bubble needs to be removed from the plywood in order to effect repairs. Price, quality, schedule was a great way to explain to potential clients why they couldn't have it all. Now I need to go Get complete site access to video workshops, digital plans library, online archive, and more, plus the print magazine. UNLIMITED membership - Get access to it all. How do I report a missing item from Walmart grocery delivery. With that many plies there is little room for voids . I'd rather pay a bit more for materials that I could turn my back on. The Forum is a free service, and much like the "free" content on Public Radio, we hope you will support WoodenBoat by subscribing to this fabulous magazine. You can't blame them for employing extremely successful marketing and selling strategies. I had bought three sheets and made two cuts in one of them. Sand just enough to roughen the surface and remove any loose wood fibers and existing adhesive. Plywood with extensive moisture damage must be cut out and replaced with sound plywood. There are a number of different types of damage that plywood can incur, but Im specifically referring to dents, surface cracks and bubbles. Mix the epoxy hardener with the epoxy resin according to the manufacturer's instructions. Cut the delaminated plywood veneer face away with a utility knife. I prefer the Columiba brand (not source of origin) as it is excellent grade and they guarantee no formaldehyde in the glues. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/products/prodeuro.aspx, Making Furniture Out Of Home Depot Dimensionsal Lumber, Old Home - Beautiful Floors - Help Me Avoid Screwing This Up, Editor's Letter: Technology and the future of woodworking. Just for kicks next time ask them if they guarantee the plywood before you buy it . A good glue bond can tolerate many hundreds of pounds of stress per square inch, so failure, even if the panel is slightly mistreated, is normally not likely to happen. In boats and other structures that are subject to water, repairs should be accomplished as soon as possible. I guess we wouldn't pay for that kind of quality either? My wife suggested that I return it, but I decided to squeeze glue into it, clamp it and go for a bike ride. Sign Up for Woodworking Network Newsletters, Get the latest headlines delivered to you daily Subscribe. Knowledgeable help is "delaminating" as well. 2022 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. My lumber store (Aura Hardwoods) claims to carry the Europly! I guess I'll have to browse around more the next time I'm there. Don't bother to reply. I find HD caters to more construction type work and very little in the way of cabinetery. Now I wish that I had taken the sheet back just so I could get into it with the lumber folks. Lemon oil works well on natural wood, as it doesnt produce too glossy of a finish. Major damage, where a piece of plywood is broken pretty much always requires replacement as well. "That Steve is why I suggested we vote with our as consumers. I like the one about the couple looking at digital VCR cameras at the big box store , they asked the clerk what can you tell us about this video camera ? It said "Price", "Quality" "Speed" Pick two. What I have a problem with, is companies that specify items to be manufactured in China that don't take responsibility for the quality assurance of their manufactured goods. A little more for the quality, but I expect to pay more for quality. In short, delamination within a plywood panel is seldom, if ever, a problem caused by the furniture manufacturer. Any recommendations on the type of glue and paint? The interesting thing to me is that China among many other countries will not allow it to be sold there because of the health risks , how bout that . Why does delam occur? He is extension specialist emeritus at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. I ran into the problem several years ago and simply won't buy ply from the Box stores.

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